Chankya : Master of Motivation
AND
OROP
SMALL STEPS WITH SMALL GAINS
ULTIMATELY
LEADS TO FINAL VICTORY
NO ONE IS INVINCIBLE
VICTORY
IS THE
ULTIMATE PRODUCT OF PATIENCE
HON' R.M. JI VETERANS ARE ON THE THE PATH OF
"SATYAM JAYANTE
&
VETERANS CANNOT BE DEFEATED BECAUSE VETERANS FOLLOW THE ANCIENT ADVISE OF DHARAM GURUS
LISTEN FOR YOUR SELF
ACCEPT OUT INVITATION
COME & MEET THE STAMINA
OF
OLDEST OF OLD "OROP" FIGHTER
OROP : Notification and Reactions
of
Veterans Organisations
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Nov 12 (7 days ago)
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Dear Members
All are aware that Govt has issued OROP Notification on 7 Nov 15 as a Diwali gift to veterans and Military personnel. Surprisingly there is no change of even a coma in the notification in what was announced on 5 Sep 15 by the RM. Only difference is that VRS/PMR for old past pensioners has been removed.
There is a flurry of mails on net giving advise to agitating veterans at JM. These advises can be summarized.
1. Agitation should continue and intensity increased to counter the move of Govt which is attempting to paint veterans as greedy. This gp is apprehensive that pensions will reduce than what we are getting now with these conditions imposed. Pl remember circular 547 for payment of arrears from 1 Jan 2006, issued tables resulted in recovery from past pensioners to be effected rather than giving them arrears. This gp does not have any faith on sincerity of CGDA/DESW?MOD.
2. Agitation should stop at JM and accept what has been given to you and do not make noise. This is fait accompli.
3. Agitation should stop at JM and engage govt in discussion/negotiation and accept middle level for OROP.
If one had to accept option 2 or 3 then there was no need to start agitation or even rallies as we would get whatever Govt (bureaucrats) decide to give you. They would throw some breadcrumbs and in private abuse us and call us names. This option was not acceptable to some of us (pl note some of us). At the same time we were conscience that no harm should come to veterans at large in getting pension benefits after all large population of veterans lives below poverty line. Pl do not give us examples of officers and their pension but talk of JCOs, NCOs, ORs and widows.
The issue was discussed threadbare in GB meetings of UFESM with Col Inderjit Singh and his team of AIEWA and GB of IESM. It came out that some of veterans organisations will accept whatever is given by the Govt and if one section of the veterans keeps the flame alive fights for full OROP. Govt will in any case give what they have decided and we will get full OROP after our fight. Some veterans started with this concept and started an agitation at JM. This agitation got tumultuous support from veterans, NDA courses and now regiments are coming to JM in support of agitation thus giving approval to our strategy. In the beginning we had no funds as our bank account was blocked ( reasons are known to all). Veterans came out with full conviction to support us and contributed to support the agitation. Some of our detractors will make accusations because they and their organisations are not getting these funds. Many of them want major share of this donation in their pockets without sweating for it. Surprising is not it!!!!!!!! On the donation has gone in the funds of IESM as UFESM was not registered and did not have a MOA on 15 June 15, the day agitation started at JM. Moreover only IESM and AIEWA have been working on ground at JM and hence to say that others be given share in this donation is absurd to say!!!!!
IESM assures all members that every penny has been recorded and is accounted for. Audited account will be put up for approval of AGM. It will be well nigh impossible to reply those who are constantly sowing doubts in the mind of veterans and infact wanting share of donation in their pocket but are not getting. IESM declares that all accounts are available and any well meaning and responsible veterans is free to check the accounts at JM.
GB IESM and AIEWA discussed the issue in great detail on 5 Sep 15 after PC of RM flanked by three chiefs. GB was of the opinion.
- That VRS clause had been inserted only to scare the veterans and most of them will be gullible to accept other conditions in exchange of Govt removing VRS clause. However GB had different view and decided that we would not cowed down under threat and would fight for full OROP.
- GB was of the view that Govt is committed to give OROP and will give OROP in diluted form under any circumstances whether we fight or not. Diluted OROP is not acceptable to veterans and hence GB decided to put up fight for benefit of all veterans and to try to get them full OROP. At that time some pessimist or nay sayers or soft hearted veterans and some cautious seniors advised not to start agitation and accept whatever is being given by the Govt. However GB thought otherwise and started the agitation for full OROP.
As expected Govt has issued notification of heavily diluted OROP. Some veterans have once again started this campaign that agitation must be stopped now and issue be fought in commission and courts. This is a sane advise and is being discussed seriously. Present situation is that Govt has created a perception that they have fulfilled their promise and only some greedy veterans are sitting at JM for their own benefit. Please understand that a concerted effort is required to change this perception and win over public confidence or else we will lose in commission and in courts.
We have come to know that Govt has directed all station of AIR to plan programs on OROP and communicate to citizen that OROP has been granted. So friends it is upto you whether you want to fight for full OROP or you are happy with this diluted OROP.
We also do not wish to sit at JM forever because that will be counter productive. But we will definitely work to change perception that full OROP has been granted. We are also not happy sitting at JM ignoring our families.
Leave it to judgement of all veterans,.
Regards
Gp Capt VK Gandhi VSM
Gen Sec IESM
Gen Sec IESM
Flat no 801, Tower N5
Narmada Apartments
Pocket D6
Vasant Kunj
OROP is our right. Dilution in OROP will NOT be accepted.
IF YOU SEE SOMEONE WITHOUT A SMILE GIVE HIM ONE OF YOURS.
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Pl see the comments below on 5 yearly review of OROP based on para 6.4 and 6.5 of Koshiyar committee report.
Since you have the report in your office, can you comment on the e-mail below.
Thank you,
NS Sastry
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The correct position on the OROP notification has now been explained, as such, all agitations could stop and we should now concentrate on the question of applicability of OROP concept in the likely recommendation of fixed pay scales by the Seventh Pay Commission.
My own take on the likely scenario is as follows:
The recommendations of Seventh regarding restructuring of salaries will be implemented by the Govt for all veterans including those from defense services.
As regards five yearly review it may be carried out after the implementation date of Seventh PC that is 01-01-2016. However, it appears to me that likely changes in the salary structure may not need any five yearly review. Five yearly review was recommended by the Army and Air Force at Para 6.4 and 6.5 of the Koshyari Committee report. It was incorrectly interpreted by the agitators that it was related to increments to the pensioners.
When one reads these paragraphs carefully it will be seen that the Army had stated that past pensioners cannot be given increment every year as their number of years of service do not increase after retirement but the current retirees would have more pension as their pay at the time of retirement would be more due to increments that they receive. As such the pension gap between them and past retirees will continue to widen. Similar view was also expressed by the Air Force. The first DGL prepared by the Army also clearly mentioned that future enhancement does not mean annual increments.
What is clearly indicated at Para 6.4 is the fact that increments to serving personnel of the same rank but lesser number of years of service or those who are promoted to the same rank within a running pay band system will continually increase and their greater amount of pay due to increments would, eventually, surpass that of those who has retired earlier at the same rank, when they reach the same number of years of service as compared to those had retired earlier. This will mean that they will not draw pension at par with the current retirees. To bridge such a gap a review, every five years, had been recommended. Some people seem to misunderstand this paragraph to mean that every retiree should also get increment though their service does not increase after retirement.
It will be interesting to see as to how OROP could be fitted in the fixed scale model that is likely to be introduced by the seventh pay commission. The five yearly reviews within a fixed scale system may not be rational as the salary level of the same rank will not change for the same number of years of service. Thus the review may be put in cold storage. If the pension averaging principle is still followed after the seventh pay commission is implemented, OROP may cause reduction from full parity for several pensioners, as pay fixation and thereby pension fixation may be somewhere between modified parity at present and flexible parity with OROP.
However, on a long term perspective seventh pay commission recommendations may be more beneficial for pensioners as remodeling of OROP could bring the pensioners closer to full pension parity.
Regards & Best Wishes for the festive season.
Gp Capt U R Dabir (Retd)
O.R.O.P. Panel Discussion
Friends ,
There will be live panel discussion on OROP post Notification about
it, around 9 PM tonight (10 Nov) on PTC News. You may like to watch.
Regards,
Harwant
--
Regards
Veteran AVM RP Mishra
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10:12 AM (11 hours ago)
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Dear Col Krishnan
Thank you very much for the advise. We are getting advises from ground some in favor and some against. All the advises are discussed in gp meeting (GB IESM, AIEWA and other supporting orgn) and then discussed with veterans present at JM. Guidance of Col Inderjit singh is major guiding factor in decision. Decisions are taken democratically at ground zero and accordingly followed.
Please be rest assured that decision to continue agitation is outcome of this discussion at JM.
Regards
Gp Capt VK Gandhi VSM
Gen Sec IESM
Gen Sec IESM
Flat no 801, Tower N5
Narmada Apartments
Pocket D6
Vasant Kunj
OROP is our right. Dilution in OROP will NOT be accepted.
IF YOU SEE SOMEONE WITHOUT A SMILE GIVE HIM ONE OF YOURS.
There is a Chinese saying,
'if you are riding a tiger, it's hard to get off'.
Our agitation, for good or bad depending on your perspective, has taken this form.
B Bates
On 12 November 2015 at 17:54, Colonel Krishnam colonelkrishnan1@gmail.com[indianveterans] <indianveterans@yahoogroups.
Dear veteran Gp Capt Gandhi Sir,
Thanks for your elaborate letter. But my personal opinion is that, that your mail is heavily justifying to continue the agitation at JM, although you say that you are not interested in sitting at JM.Have you ever thought for a while whether continuing agitation and strengthening the public perception that we veterans are unreasonable is a worthy thing to do? It is not that the veterans opposing the agitation are happy with "breadcrumbs" (incidentally, they are not breadcrumbs and some butter with bread, if you see in details) but they are being reasonable and can foresee the damage the agitation can cause.I am residing in Bangalore and have occasional interaction with dozens of veterans. Whomever I have come across, they are all not only against this agitation and but also detest it, so is the case with large number of civilian friends.There is time to start an agitation and a time to stop it. You cannot ask to meet 100% yourdemand from Government and say my way is the highway. While there are other options likeapproaching the judicial commission and then, if not resolved, knocking the doors of judiciary,you all seem to be persistent on agitation only, which I am afraid, will not bear any fruit, rather will be counter productive.Think it over with cool mind and see things in totality and not in isolation. If you are stilladamant, forget this mail and carry on in your "highway"Regards,Col Krishnan (retd)
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BEWARE OF SELF CENTRED JUDAS SPREADING RUMOURS
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Last_Supper_(copy)_-_WGA12732.jpg
BEWARE OF SELF CENTRED JUDAS SPREADING RUMOURS
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9:58 PM (20 hours ago)
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Dear Veterans
Of late some veterans are spreading rumours regarding the notification for OROP issued by Govt. Rumours are of following type.
- Govt has issued correct notification and most of veterans are satisfied with the notification. UFESM/IESM stand; We consider that this notification dilutes the definition of OROP and will ensure that a senior veteran will get less pension form his junior from day one, hence notification is not acceptable to IESM. We will fight for issuance of correct notification as per approved definition. However if you think that notification is good for you pl go ahead and accept it.
- Increased pension will not be available to veterans if UFESM/IESM puts up a fight for its rectification. This is a false statement, IESM will fight for correct notification and is not interested in taking stay or blocking payment of this increase. However we will definitely fight for its correction and getting full OROP for veteran community.
- Some veterans, who till yesterday were issuing statements that IESM has accepted equalization of pay every two years instead of one year (IESM is fighting for equalization of pension every year), are now attending panel discussions on TV channels and are confirming satisfaction with equalization of pay every five years. Is it not hypocrisy of highest order?
UFESM/IESM feels that following veterans are s[earheading the rumour campaign for accepting the present notification. These veterans will issue many statements in support of their campaign. All those who wish to follow them are free to agree with their approach. But all those who do not believe these rumours must oppose them. UFESM/IESM requests that veterans should desist from forwarding their mails to environment and thus help in stopping rumours. Mails from following members need to be taken cautiously.
- Lt Gen Raj Kadyan
- Col Dinesh Nain
- Bir Bahadur Singh
- Sgt V Misra
It is for information of all that UFESM/IESM has rejected the notification as it does not meet the definition approved by Parliament. IESM strongly feels that the notification issued by Govt on 7 Nov 15 does not meet definition of OROP and is to be considered as one time increase and falls much short of principle of OROP. IESM has therefore written to RM that this notfication be withdrawn and fresh notification issued after correcting seven anomalies pointed out by IESM. It is also for information of all that UFESM/IESM is planning to file a case in court for correct interpretation of definition of OROP, if the Govt refuses to correct it. IESM will not take stay on the notification.
Regards
Gp Capt VK Gandhi VSM
Gen Sec IESM
Gen Sec IESM
Flat no 801, Tower N5
Narmada Apartments
Pocket D6
Vasant Kunj
OROP is our right. Dilution in OROP will NOT be accepted.
IF YOU SEE SOMEONE WITHOUT A SMILE GIVE HIM ONE OF YOURS.
