Friday, September 18, 2015

NUKES INDO - PAK : PART I- A Normal Nuclear Pakistan & PART II - A Pakistani’s response to “A Normal Nuclear Pakistan”

SOURCE  :
http://www.stimson.org/images/uploads/research-pdfs/NormalNuclearPakistan.pdf

http://southasianvoices.org/a-pakistanis-response-to-a-normal-nuclear-Pakistan/



                                                            PART - ONE





                    A Normal Nuclear Pakistan


 
 
 
                                                                   EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
 
 
Pakistan has worked hard and successfully to build diverse nuclear capabilities. It will retain these capabilities for the foreseeable future as a necessary deterrent against perceived existential threats from India. At this juncture, Pakistan’s military leadership in Rawalpindi can choose to accept success in achieving a “strategic” deterrent against India — a nuclear force posture sufficient to prevent limited nuclear exchanges and a major conventional war. Alternatively, it can choose to continue to compete with India in the pursuit of “full spectrum” deterrence, which would entail open-ended nuclear requirements against targets both near and far from Pakistan. These choices would lead Pakistan to two starkly different nuclear futures and places in the global nuclear order.

Pakistan is now competing successfully with — and in some respects is outcompeting — India. Pakistan
operates four plutonium production reactors; India operates one. Pakistan has the capability to produce perhaps 20 nuclear warheads annually; India appears to be producing about five warheads annually.

But given its larger economy and sizable nuclear infrastructure, India is able to outcompete Pakistan in fissile material and warhead production if it chooses to do so. Pakistan has prepared for this eventuality by investing in a large nuclear weapons production complex. Whether New Delhi chooses to compete more intensely or not, it is a losing proposition for Pakistan to sustain, let alone expand, its current infrastructure to produce greater numbers of nuclear weapons and their means of delivery. Just as the Soviet Union’s large nuclear arsenal was of no help whatsoever for its manifold economic and societal weaknesses, Pakistan’s nuclear weapons do not address its internal challenges.

Pakistan seeks to be viewed as a “normal” state possessing nuclear weapons, as exemplified by membership in the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG). Its diplomats seek a civil-nuclear cooperation agreement similar to the one accorded to India. A commercial pathway to being mainstreamed into the global nuclear order is highly unlikely for Pakistan, which lacks the commercial leverage and support that resulted in a nuclear deal for India. A different path toward mainstreaming is available to Pakistan, via nuclear-weapon-related initiatives. Having succeeded in achieving the requirements of “strategic”
deterrence, Pakistan is in a position to consider nuclear initiatives that would clarify its commitment to strengthening nuclear norms, regimes, and practices, and would address widely held perceptions that its nuclear deterrence practices are a major source of danger in South Asia.

We propose that Pakistan consider five nuclear weapon-related initiatives:

Shift declaratory policy from “full spectrum” to “strategic” deterrence.

• Commit to a recessed deterrence posture and limit production of short-range delivery vehicles and

tactical nuclear weapons.

• Lift Pakistan’s veto on Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty negotiations and reduce or stop fissile material

production.

• Separate civilian and military nuclear facilities.

• Sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty without waiting for India.

None of these initiatives would impair Pakistan’s successful accomplishment of strategic deterrence against India. They would, however, require difficult and fundamental adjustments to thinking about nuclear weapons and Pakistan’s deeply ingrained habits of transactional bargaining. Precisely because these initiatives would be so difficult and unusual for Pakistan, they would change perceptions about Pakistan and its place in the global nuclear order. As such, they could facilitate Pakistan’s entrance into the nuclear mainstream, while strengthening nonproliferation norms, bolstering global disarmament hopes, and setting the bar higher for new entrants into the NSG.

The global nuclear order will not be strengthened by trying to accommodate a Pakistan that is greatly increasing its nuclear capabilities while rejecting the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty. Nor will Pakistan become a normal, nuclear state by competing with India or by harboring groups that could spark a war with India. The international community is unlikely to accommodate Pakistan’s desire to enter the nuclear mainstream without corresponding steps by Pakistan to align aspects of its nuclear policy and practices closer with international norms. The steps we propose lend themselves to mainstreaming. More importantly, these steps would advance Pakistan’s national, social, and economic security interests.
 
  CLICK & READ THE FULL TEXT OF THE REPORT IN PDF  FILE   


http://www.stimson.org/images/uploads/research-pdfs/NormalNuclearPakistan.pdf
 
 
 
 
 
                                         
 
 
 

 
 
 
                                                   PART - TWO
 
 

                      A Pakistani’s Response

                                        to

                  “A Normal Nuclear Pakistan”


According toA Normal Nuclear Pakistan,” a recent report co-authored by Michael Krepon and Toby Dalton, Pakistan could have close to 350 nuclear weapons by 2025. The key word here is “could.”


It is no secret that Pakistan faces many internal challenges. For nearly the past decade, our economy has been a mess, our armed forces have been engaged in combating terrorism, and our society has been plagued by a host of problems like unemployment, illiteracy, access to clean water, lack of affordable healthcare, and so on and so forth. But to presume, as I perceive the authors have in their report, that our armed forces are taking money from social programs and diverting it for military purposes is inaccurate.


The fact is that according to government documents our defense budget has hovered around 2.6 percent of the GDP for the last few years; it is also the lowest percentage of our GDP since independence. Even with the current, declared budget at $7.6 billion  (compared to India’s $40 billion or America’s $585 billion), our military has a hard time making ends meet. We have invested all of our resources in the war against terror as a frontline state. Strictly financially speaking, it would be impossible for us to develop two-hundred-some nuclear warheads in the next ten years.




The authors have urged Pakistan to consider adopting five initiatives related to the nuclear weapons program:
  1. Shift declaratory policy from “full spectrum” to “strategic” deterrence.
  2. Commit to a recessed deterrence posture and limit production of short-range delivery vehicles and tactical nuclear weapons.
  3. Lift Pakistan’s veto on Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty negotiations and reduce or stop fissile material production.
  4. Separate civilian and military nuclear facilities.
  5. Sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty without waiting for India.

On the first initiative, I would argue that there is no difference between “full spectrum” and “strategic” deterrence. Pakistan has always maintained a minimum-credible deterrence posture, but as India continues to modernize their weapon systems and expand their nuclear capabilities, Pakistan is forced to respond, so as not to leave a gap.


Western scholars need to understand that the weapons they consider to be tactical play a strategic role in the context of India and Pakistan, because of our geographic proximity. I agree with the authors that we do not need more nuclear weapons than is required to maintain a minimum credible deterrent, which is Pakistan’s stated policy.


Pakistan’s stance on the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty (FMCT) is easy to understand. The argument Pakistan makes is that the FMCT, as it is being discussed, does not address the existing stockpiles of fissile material that other countries possess. A treaty that doesn’t address existing stockpiles would put Pakistan at a huge disadvantage vis-a-vis India, which is believed to have a far larger stockpile of fissile material. Therefore, lifting our veto on FMCT would not serve our national security interests. Furthermore, it would be advantageous if the international community focused more on complete disarmament rather than the FMCT.


It is also essential to recognize that though Pakistan is the only country to have officially vetoed the treaty, other countries like India are glad about it, because the treaty is not acceptable to them either.


There is no question that Pakistan should separate civilian and military nuclear facilities. This is something that our military and political leadership has also worked towards. For this reason, all of our civil nuclear reactors are under item-specific IAEA safeguards, and I hope that we also sign onto the additional protocols that India has if we are offered a civil nuclear deal similar to the one they enjoy.



On the last initiative that this report recommends, which is signing the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) without waiting for India, I agree. We must appreciate that Pakistan has plans to operate two monitoring stations to detect nuclear tests as per the requirements of the CTBT, which is something that India has not done. Realistically, I can foresee Pakistan signing onto the CTBT, if the United States were to lead the way by ratifying it.


This report was very insightful and offered some wonderful recommendations that will help Pakistan in the near future, but has also created media frenzy.


I would urge the media to refrain from exaggerating the findings of this publication. I have already come across multiple headlines calling Pakistan the third largest nuclear weapons state, which the Carnegie-Stimson report does not argue. The numbers of nuclear weapons that Pakistan could develop in the future, as suggested in the report, are made on the assumption that we will use our entire unsafeguarded fissile material stockpile for weapons development. This is speculative. Pakistan, like India, has an energy crisis, and our current government has made clear that nuclear energy will play a large role in the future of our country. Keeping that in mind, it is my opinion that it is likely a significant amount of our existing stockpiles of fissile material will be used for producing electricity, not weapons.


In conclusion, Pakistan’s nuclear weapons have proven their efficacy by deterring Indian aggression. As long as India possesses nuclear weapons and continues expanding its capabilities, Pakistan will be forced to invest in maintaining a minimum credible



 

7 Responses to “A Pakistani’s response to “A Normal Nuclear Pakistan””

  1. Its a good rebuttal Umar and very well written. I also found more emphasis on exercising restraint to become a normal nuclear weapons state to be contentious ( Despite what this entails for Pakistan), given that report has simultaneously not examined doctrines such as CSD; which in my view should also be viewed with skepticism, instead of just zeroing down on TNWs and Pakistan’s deterrence posture.
  2. Hajira Asaf  Your articulation and point by point response to the report is welcome, considering the fact that most people here in Islamabad seem to be taking their sweet time coming up with an appropriate and detailed rebuttal or clarification. However, I felt the need to comment on your faith in India’s Additional Protocol.
    The Indian Additional Protocol is riddled with issues that essentially leave important aspects of inspections and controls vague to the point that it has been deemed perhaps the worst AP currently in existence. It neither restricts the percentage of enrichment to an internationally acceptable level for “peaceful” uses nor does it concede to reporting of information on exports of source-materials to NNWS which fall under 10 tons p/a (uranium) and 20 tons p/a (Thorium). What I’m trying to say then, is that India has managed to “agree to disagree” with the Model AP on most aspects.
    , a chronological view of the matter would reveal that “the deal” having come years before India agreeing to negotiate an AP, was not a reward for responsible behavior on India’s part but rather the AP was something of a necessity for the deal to gain some semblance of legitimacy. It is therefore, in my humble opinion, counter-productive to aspire to agree on an AP akin to that of India’s. Not to mention, a bit too optimistic (and a tad opportunistic) to expect a nuclear trade agreement to emerge from it. Pakistan is then perhaps being more responsible by avoiding to agree to an AP that would discredit the IAEA in the way that the Indian AP has, while voluntarily agreeing to certain safe-guards to show resolve and commitment to ensuring nuclear safety and security according to international standards.
  3. Thank you Hamzah.
    Hajira I mentioned the Indian Additional Protocol agreement on purpose, because well there is nothing in them as you’ve highlighted. It was just a poke at all those who think that the Indian AP agreement is as comprehensive as the one applied to let’s say the United States. But I do see how it can easily be interpreted in the way you have. I agree with you that the Indian AP has done damage to the IAEA and the nonproliferation regime overall.
  4. Sameer Lalwani
    Some fair points Prof. Umar
    But I would argue that deterrence worked without deployed tactical nuclear weapons during crises in 1999, 2001-02 and 2008 because clear red lines were credibly conveyed. I think Robert Jervis’s masterful work “The Meaning of the Nuclear revolution” still helps us understand why this is the case. Even a limited strategic deterrent—with a secure second strike capability—threatens to deliver unacceptable damage on ones adversary.
    I also think its worth noting that the China appears to have embraced this notion early and consistently, and with much success. China managed to avoid worrying about “gaps” and trying to compete with the US and Soviet Union despite hostilities with both of them. Because they employed a posture of assured retaliation to deter aggression rather than a posture that embraced nuclear warfighting (as two scholars argue here:
    http://www.ou.edu/uschina/texts/Fravel.Medeiros.2010.IS.Nucs.pdf), they focused less on numbers or size and more on survivability for a secure second strike. And despite numerous territorial disputes (23 distinct ones I believe and three with nuclear powers), it managed to maintain a successful deterrent. Certainly every country’s deterrent requirements are unique but that seems like a useful model that is both effective and cost efficient, allowing China to deter stronger adversaries with a limited arsenal while investing in economic reforms that made it the great power it is today.
  5. Pakistan thinks
    Are you guys serious?
    @ M Umar: Do you even realize that Pakistan is not as dependent on indigenous Uranium as India? Pakistan fuels only KANUPP with indigenous Uranium and KANUPP is to be shutdown in 2019.
    @Hajira Asaf: Additional Protocol is not meant at putting an upper limit on Uranium enrichment level. If a facility (uranium enrichment in this case) is under the IAEA safeguards then the Uranium (regardless of its level of enrichment) is going to be safeguarded. So, Pakistan (or the non-proliferationists) does not have to worry about what levels India enrich its uranium to in the safeguarded facilities.
  6. Muhammad:
    A strong rebuttal.
    The focus of media reports, as you say, was how high the Pakistani arsenal might climb if production rates are high and if they continue unabated. Toby and I wrote 20,000 words; the press reports were maybe 600-800 words. Authors can’t choose those words. We are grateful that our hard work has been noticed, which perhaps will prompt readers to study the entirety of our report.
    Best wishes,
    MK
  7. Michael: It is honestly a great report. You and Toby have started a new conversation talking about a normal nuclear Pakistan–this is a great first step. Those who read it carefully in Pakistan will appreciate the change in tone in regards to our status as a nuclear power. You’ve successfully highlighted the challenges, perhaps some middle ground can be achieved on these issues.

GOVERNANCE : SUPPORT ME ,I WILL PROVE BETTER PRIME MINISTER THAN OTHERS

SOURCE : 
 
 
 
Please circulate to 1.3 billion Indians-


 

 SUPPORT ME ,I WILL PROVE BETTER          PRIME  MINISTER THAN OTHERS



Cdr Sharan Ahuja Sja's photo.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Please circulate to 1.3 billion Indians-

WHY DO THE POLITICIANS AND THE BUREAUCRATS DESPISE THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES SO MUCH??

WHEN WE DON'T TROUBLE HIM / HER
...
WHEN WE KEEP SIRING THEM EVEN WE ARE 28 YRS OF SERVICE LIFE N THEY WITH 16-18 YRS OF WISDOM
WHEN WE GIVE RESPECT AND THEY SECRETLY LAUGH AT US...WHO TAUGHT US ALL THIS TO CARRY FILES IN THE CORRIDORS TO BE SHOED BY THE SECTION OFFICER'S
A PITY.....




Dear People Of India,


1 We are Indian Army Soldiers. Countries like the US and UK and most other advanced democracies, with Armies that are facing conflict, venerate the men and women who serve in the Armed Forces. The UK parliament has even passed a law called Armed Forces Covenant . An Armed Forces Covenant is the expression of the moral obligation that the government and the nation owe to the armed forces community. The covenant acknowledges that members of the armed forces sacrifice some freedoms and often face dangerous situations. It recognises that families play a vital role in supporting the operational effectiveness of the armed forces.

It is only in India where our men and women have to go through the humiliation of a comparison with a discredited  & CORRUPT bureaucracy.


In the United States, 15 presidents have served in the Army/Army Reserve , 9 in the State Militias, 6 in the Navy/Naval Reserve, with 2 presidents having serving in the Continental Army. In addition, eight presidents served during World War II, while seven served in the military during the American Civil War. That was the kind of military service they did before becoming the President and Commander in Chief of the US of America. No wonder they respect their Armed Forces and their Veterans.


2 Your Armed Forces cannot be compared with the IAS, IPS, BSF, CRPF, ITBP, CISF , NSG, Railway Protection Force, Rapid Deployment Force or the State Armed Police Forces.A Nation can have only one Military.

The renowned sociologist Morris Janowitz had famously said: “The intimate social solidarity of the military profession is both envied and resented by civilians.” A bureaucrat is in no way comparable to a man or woman who serves in the Armed Forces. Nowhere is this comparison even attempted, not in the United States, the United Kingdom or even China. It’s laughable and making that comparison is ludicrous. Neither can the Armed Forces be compared or equated to other police forces of a Country.


3 WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO YOU AND TO NO ONE ELSE BECAUSE :

(a) WE HAVE PLEDGED TO PROTECT YOU, AND WE LIKE TO KEEP OUR WORD !

(b). WE ARE SURE THAT YOU LOVE US AND WE KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THE INDIAN MILITARY IS THE LAST BASTION OF HOPE WHEN THE GOVT MACHINERY, IAS, IPS, BSF, CRPF, ITBP, CISF , NSG, Railway Protection Force HAVE FAILED ----- AND WHEN FINALLY THE ARMED FORCES FAIL ; INDIA WILL BE LOST. 
     
PLEASE KNOW THESE FACTS.


4 THE GOVT, FINANCE MINISTRY AND THE IAS/IPS LOBBY IS DENYING YOUR SOLDIERS OROP UNDER THE PLEA OF FINANCIAL SCARCITY . THE FOLLOWING WILL TELL YOU THEIR SCARCITY :
        
(a) OROP ALREADY EXISTS FOR 100% OF THE BUREAUCRATS, JUDICIARY AND ALL THE PARLIAMENTARIANS.

(b). OUR PENSION WAS BROUGHT DOWN FROM 70% to 50 %WHILE THEIRS WAS RAISED FROM 30% TO 50% IN THE 3rd CPC .

(c). IN THE 6th CPC THEY DOLED OUT NFU - A SYSTEM BY WHICH ALL IAS, IPS OFFICERS & GROUP A SERVICES (LESS ARMED FORCES) WOULD RETIRE AT THE HIGHEST PAY SCALE -THEREBY GIVING THEM HIGHEST PENSION PLUS OROP. THEY LEFT FORCES OUT OF IT.

(d). THE IAS ,IPS and the CENTRAL SERVICES also gave themselves ACP - ASSURED CAREER PROGRESSION - BUT AGAIN LEFT FORCES OUT OF IT . BY DOING THIS , THEY BROUGHT US DOWN SEVERELY AND HAVE MADE THE FORCES LEAST LUCRATIVE AND LEAST HONOURABLE JOB. Without doubt the aim was to downgrade the Armed Forces of India. OUR ENEMIES ARE HAPPY AND WATCHING THIS GREAT DRAMA WITH GLEE ! Do you know that till date a DIG was was between a Lt Col and a Col . Now a Col has been equated with Non-Functional Selection Grade (NFSG). The rank of a DIG is now officially equal to a Brigadier. Both are now on a Grade Pay of Rs 8900. Because of the machinations of the Govt and the Central Services to run down the Military.


(e) THEY CAN "DONATE" $ 1 BILLION TO MONGOLIA, DONATE 1.25 LAC CRORE TO A STATE VOTE BANK, LET SCAMS OF LACS OF CRORE IN GOVT , IPL AND BCCI, give bailouts of hundreds of LAKHS to AIR INDIA but feel poor when it comes toRs. 8,300 crores for the Armed Forces personnel who are" FORCED " TO RETIRE YOUNG SO THAT THE NATION CAN SLEEP EASY.




5 It is not just Modi's promise but a four decade old promise, AN APPROVED PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE (KOSHIARY ) REPORT, A FAVOURABLE SC JUDGMENT (Maj Gen Vains ) and a promise by all Govts.


6 YOU CANNOT REMAIN INSULATED AND SEE VETERANS AND WIDOWS IGNORED AND THE STATUS AND PARITY OF THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES vis-a- vis OTHER GOVT SERVANTS DISTORTED. AND THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE 1947 !!


7 GOD FORBID IF ONE OF YOUR OWN SON or DAUGHTER or RELATIVE IS IN THE FORCES ~~ WOULD YOU STILL FEEL THE SAME ?? WILL YOU SEND YOUR NEXT GENERATION TO THE ARMED FORCES NOW ??
..


8 WE ARE BARRED FROM STRIKES , PROTESTS, UNIONS ETC -FOR REASONS OF DISCIPLINE , BUT REST OF THE COUNTRY CAN GET WHAT THEY WANT ANY TIME BY RESORTING TO RIOTING, RAIL-ROKO etc !


9 HAVE WE EVER FAILED YOU IN PEACE, WAR OR TERRORISM, RIOTS, FLOODS, EARTHQUAKE ?? JUST LAST WEEK, EVEN THE SMALL SCALE RIOTS IN GUJARAT COULD NOT BE CONTROLLED BY THE POLICE OR THE PARA MIL FORCES ( !! ) AND THE ARMY DID THE JOB !!



CAN THIS NATION SURVIVE WITHOUT ITS ARMED FORCES ??

REMEMBER SALARY MAKES US DO OUR JOB BUT ITS HONOUR AND RECOGNITION THAT IMPELS US TO EMBRACE DEATH WILLINGLY WHILE EXECUTING OUR JOB.THE POLITICIANS AND BUREAUCRATS HAVE DISHONOURED US.


 

Please circulate to your friends.





PS    BETTER VOTE HIM HE WILL GIVE BETTER GOVERNANCE THAN ANY ONE ELSE BEFORE HIM


Cdr Sharan Ahuja Sja's photo.


I ASSURE  U  THIS GUY ABOVE WILL RESTORE ALL THAT U HAVE LOST




Rajiv Dua's photo.







 

OROP : REPLY OF Gp Capt VK Gandhi TO THE ' DISTRACTIONS' BY CHICKEN HEARTED





Dear Veterans
 
UFESM/IESM is surprised at the suggestion/advise flowing out of those ESM who had never participated in agitation for OROP. Most of the ESM have not understood the meaning of this unilateral declaration of OROP. Please read it carefully and you will understand that this is not OROP but is only small increase of few hundred Rupees for all ranks. If you all wish to take it you are all welcome. In any case this money will come to your bank asap the Govt letter is issued. The Govt letter could be issued within a month as Govt is in a hurry to complete the task and claim fulfillment of promise.
 
 Moreover there is a doubt that with five yr clause of pension equalization Armed Forces personnel/ESM may not be given 7CPC recommendation till five yrs.
 
 Our bureaucrats can go to any sadistic limits to teach AFP/ESM lessons of taking up cudgel against them.  

Once a Govt letter is issued, there will be no further hearing on it. You are all aware that there are 38 anomalies pending on 6 CPC but these have not been solved in last 10 yrs as bureaucrats do no want to give you anything. Same will be the fate to any letters written to Govt after issuance of GL. 

Now Gentlemen it is your choice if you are happy with the doles given by the bureaucrats, please sit at home and be happy with bread crumbs thrown at you. [ हिंदी में कहते हैं कुत्ते की मौत -वसुंधरा ] And if you wish to fight this injustice then please pack your bags and come to JM. We will make arrangement for your stay in Gurudwaras. This is your chance of redeeming your honor. 

Some ESM are quick to point fingers at their comrades who wish to fight for redeeming their honor and are regularly attending agitation at JM and are so concerned about the expenditure at JM for the agitation that they are willingly contributing to offset the exp. Finger pointing ESM are the ones who always towed the Government line and never took up fight for OROP. These are the guys who got funds from Govt for not taking up your cases. These are the guys who are now pointing fingers at their comrades who are willingly supporting the agitation. Some of them are going to the bizarre extent to even to organize DHANDYAVAD  rallies in honor  of PM for this unilateral declaration of OROP by the Govt.

UFESM/IESM has decided to fight till end for this unjustified declaration of OROP by the Govt under influence of bureaucrats.
 We are aware of last moment addition of VRS clause in the declaration. This word was added at 1135 PM by bureaucrats with a view to remove 60% of veterans (ORs, JCOs and officers) out of OROP. Even RM and three chiefs were surprised about it.  We are not accepting it if some veterans wish to accept, it is their choice. UFESM/IESM will fight it in the courts if required. There is no term like VRS in services as VRS is given along with golden handshake to surplus manpower to prune the workforce. 

Gentlemen I feel sorry about those ESM who are pointing fingers about contribution being given at JM. Please be rest assured that UFESM/IESM has not forced any veteran to contribute funds for agitation at JM. All veterans are contributing out of their choice and free will. Every contribution is properly accounted and account statement will be put up for approval of environment on completion of our fight for OROP.

UFESM/IESM fail to understand the psyche of some veterans who do not wish to put up a fight for OROP. 

Pardon my strongly worded mail. 

UFESM/IESM request all veterans to leave inhibitions and join us in putting up a well planned and coordinated fight against evil designs of bureaucrats
  
Regards
Gp Capt VK Gandhi VSM
Gen Sec IESM
Flat no 801, Tower N5
Narmada Apartments
Pocket D6 
Vasant Kunj
Nelson Mandela Marg
New Delhi. 110070
Mobile   
09810541222
OROP is our right. Dilution in OROP will NOT be accepted.
 
 
IF YOU SEE SOMEONE WITHOUT A SMILE GIVE HIM ONE OF YOURS
 
 
###################################################
 
 
OBVIOUSLY ABOVE IS IN RESPONSE TO BELOW
                                          TO
 The "VELLAS" means "good for nothing" who have only one business in life , to spread 'ANARCHY' & 'RUMOURS' because by DNA they are born "ANARCHISTS"
 
UFESM/IESM  should not waste useful on such guys
 
####################################################
              
 
 
From: rks gulia <brigrksgulia@gmail.com>
To: Kesavan Nair Sree Kumar <
sknkulengara@yahoo.in>
Cc: Maj Gen Satbir Singh SM
&............................................................................................................................. .......................................................................................................................
 
 
Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2015 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: OROP

What ever we all may  feel or convinced he will not withdraw from JM till collection are coming. It will remain so irrespective of all sane opinions otherwise.

On 17 Sep 2015 17:17, "Kesavan Nair Sree Kumar" <sknkulengara@yahoo.in> wrote:
Dear Sir,

    Earlier I had submitted only my suggestion on withdrawal of strike and meeting with Raksha Manthri and Judicial committee member only after implementation of One Rank One Pension Letter by Government/Ministry of Defence as I understood that the Government has not yet fulfilled / met any of the important point as raised by the Ex Serviceman Association as I also understood that the same sad thing has happened due to sadistic work of India's Most worst and one of the top (Enemy Country and  all the Terrorist  group will come below the Bureaucrats Lobbies/mafias)  Internal enemy is known as Bureaucrat Lobbies/Mafias are played in between with an intention that they are not interested /do not want get One Rank One Pension to Defence Forces hence such type of manipulations has been worked out to delay or not fulfilled the OROP case permanently as we all knows that one of the most Cruel Bureaucrat of India has made one cruel comment on OROP  during long Back that OROP OVER MY DEAD BODY that is showing the actual mentality from the bottom of the heart of Bureaucrats /sadistic work of Bureaucrats of India . With truth I wish to say that  Government has not yet met any of the single demand/legitimate demand as submitted by Ex Serviceman Associations to Government from time to time which includes OROP effecting date, OROP Table (to be prepared as Top of the scale to be taken into account) and another 5 points  but nothing repeat nothing has been fulfilled by the Government however Government has given maximum publicity on OROP through various Media in the meantime Government has  befooled the entire Ex Serviceman and their families of India which result entire Public of India might have thinks that Ex Serviceman are greedy for more money,  therefore, they are still in Hunger Strike/Relay Hunger Strike at Janthar Mandhir  even after declaration of One Rank One Pension by the Government as on 05 Sep 2015 as no body is not interested to see the actual truth/actual things/not interested to listen the actual truth from any body  happened with Ex Serviceman and their families  In another words I wish to say that  the Government has drastically betrayed all /entire Ex Serviceman and their families of India in the name of One Rank One Pension but in the same time they are succeeded on their sadistic work with not fulfill/ met any of the legitimate demand /important demands as submitted by the Ex Servicemen's Association  prior to declaration of One Rank One Pension .  I wish to say these all things are only making entire Ex Serviceman and their families but in the same time they want some popularity in front of   entire Public of India prior to Election and future elections only  

    Reply Please


   With regards


   Sree kumar KK 


On Thursday, 17 September 2015 11:52 AM, SANTOKH BHATIA <santokhsb@gmail.com> wrote:


Dear KK Ji,
If Government issues implementation letter with all the anomalies, it would take ages to get them rectified. This is what Babus want. They want to drag you into litigation.
The hue and cry by ESM before issue of letter is a must to force them to correct it to avoid litigation.
Regards.
Lt Col S S Bhatia,(Retd)
9815447161
LL- 0181- 2632347
On Sep 16, 2015 3:46 PM, "Kesavan Nair Sree Kumar" <sknkulengara@yahoo.in> wrote:
Dear Sir

As per my humble request is  wait for Government Letter on OROP then discuss with Raksha Manthri/Committee member to resolve the issue as other strikes and Relay Hunger Strikes are wastage at present. Everything can be solved after due discussions 

  Reply Please

  With Regards


   Sree Kumar KK 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IAS : PETITION ON CHANGE.ORG : ABOLISH THE IAS & SAVE INDIA



                PETITION ON CHANGE.ORG :

ABOLISH THE IAS & SAVE INDIA







CLICK,OPEN , READ , SIGN  &  FORWARD

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
138 signatures are still needed!
 
 
 .......... just signed this petition on Change.org.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

OROP ; Letter to Hon’ble Raksha Mantri dt 18 Sep 2015 and three Chiefs By Maj Gen Satbir Singh




satbirsm@gmail.com via googlegroups.com 

Attachments10:58 AM (7 hours ago)
to iesm_group
 



18 Sep 2015

 

SERIOUS SHORTCOMINGS IN THE IMPLEMENT OF ONE RANK ONE PENSION (OROP) AS READ OUT BY RAKSHA MANTRI      
       
Dear Veterans
 

1.       Letter to Hon’ble Raksha Mantri  dt 18 Sep 2015 and three Chiefs  regarding “Serious shortcomings in the implement of One Rank One Pension (OROP) as read out by Raksha Mantri  is enclosed herewith for information and widest circulation please.    
2.   Our earlier mail on the subject dated 17 Sep 2015 may please be treated as cancelled.   

       

            With regards,
Yours Sincerely,
 
Maj Gen Satbir Singh, SM (Retd)                                                         
Advisor United Front of Ex Servicemen & Chairman IESM                   
Mobile: 9312404269014110570                                         

18 Sep 2015

 

Shri Manohar Parrikar                                                                                                       
Hon’ble Raksha Mantri                                                                                                                  
104, South Block, New Delhi

SERIOUS SHORTCOMINGS IN THE IMPLEMENT OF ONE RANK ONE PENSION (OROP) AS READ OUT BY RAKSHA MANTRI             
Hon’ble Raksha Mantri

1.         Much awaited announcement on the Implementation of One Rank One Pension (OROP) as read out by you on 05th Sep 2015 has some serious shortcomings.  If not corrected, will not only dilute the OROP but will destroy its approved definition.  The assurances given to the Defence Fraternity will remain unfulfilled.  OROP had been denied to us for the past 42 years when OROP in the form Military Pension was withdrawn. Pensions for Military Personnel were reduced from 70% to 50% while that the civilian employees were increased from 33% to 50%.  The ends of justice would have been met, had the Military Pensions were also proportionality increased or age of retirement brought on parity with civil.
2.         The seven serious shortcomings in the implementation of OROP as announced by you on 05 Sep 2015 are as under:-

  • Premature Retirement (PMR).  You have stated that defence personnel proceeding on Voluntary Retirement Scheme (VRS) will  not be entitled to the OROP.  It is pertinent to mention that VRS is not applicable to the defence personnel.  What we have is the Premature Retirement (PMR).  This is the National requirement to have the Military Personnel young in age.  Consequently they are retired with pensions at younger ages.  Therefore, all defence pensioners are very much to be covered of OROP scheme.  Not only the PMR pensioners but also the disability and the family pensioners are to be part of OROP.  Infact, three career progressions which have been authorised to every Govt employee as 6th CPC award is also required to be entitled to the defence personnel and all of them have to be given the pensions of three promotions.  

  • Instead of equalizing the pensions every year as required as per the approved definition, the Govt has announced equalization after 5 years.  This would totally defeat the definition of OROP.  Large number of senior defence personnel will start drawing less pension than juniors.  This would result in One Rank Five Pensions and not One Rank One Pension. This is not acceptable. Veterans have software to overcome the administrative problems being quoted for the government.

  • The Govt plans to order one man commission to decide on the periodicity of the equalization of pension and other anomalies and has given six months time to the commission.  The purpose of such a committee is not understood particularly since all issues have been resolved as stated by you after the last time the file was sent to finance ministry. This is grossly unfair and not acceptable.  If committee is to be ordered, it must consist of five members: - three from ex-servicemen, one serving defence personnel and one from MoD.  Such committee should be given only one month period to submit its report and within 15 days thereafter it must be processed and final decision implemented.
  • During our discussions with the Personal Secretary to the Hon’ble Prime Minister, base year 2013 – 2014 was accepted, that means as on 31 Mar 2014.  However, in the Note issued by the Defence Minister, calendar year 2013 has been mentioned, that too the average of the calendar year.  This is not acceptable. 
  • The Govt plans to give arrears wef 01 Jul 2014 instead of 01 Apr 2014 The Govt has deprived the veterans three months of arrears. Once a Welfare Scheme has been sanctioned by the Govt, why is it being diluted to the disadvantage of defence veterans? Further if the date is changed to 01 Jul 2014 then the financial year must also change to 2014-2015.
  • It was agreed by you to grant highest of scale of rank and years the service.  The Govt intention to grant average of the pay scale will greatly reduce the pensions.  JCOs, ORs and widows will get hardly any increase in pension. 
  • This is a concept which is to be executed in perpetuity. This was also agreed that the implementation of OROP is independent of Central Pay Commission (CPC).  It is pertinent to mention that Pay Commission award must integrate the OROP and should not adjudicate on it.
3.         The above may please to corrected before the issue of Govt Notification on OROP.  You are also requested to incorporate reps of ESM for the preparations of Draft Govt Letter.   May we request you to kindly grant meeting at the earliest to discuss all the above issues please.


4.      Our letter on the above subject dated 17 Sep 2015 may please be treated as cancelled.
 


With regards,


Yours Sincerely,
 
Maj Gen Satbir Singh, SM (Retd)                                                         
Advisor United Front of Ex Servicemen & Chairman IESM                   
Mobile: 9312404269014110570                                         
Copy to :-   

 
General Dalbir Singh                                   
PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, VSM, ADC                      Chief of the Army Staff
Integrated HQs of Ministry of Defence (Army)South Block, New Delhi-110011
 
 
You are requested to jointly and strongly take up the issue with the Govt. 
Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha                           PVSM, AVSM, VM, ADC                                         Chief of the Air Staff & Chairman,                    Chiefs of Staffs Committee (CoSC),                   Integrated HQs of Ministry of Defence      (Air Force) Vayu Bhawan, New Delhi 110011
 
 
Our request as above.
Admiral R K Dhowan, PVSM, AVSM, YSM, ADC,Chief of the Naval Staff                                                                                Integrated HQs of Ministry of Defence (Navy)  South Block, New Delhi -110011
 
 
Our request as above