SOURCE:
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/pakistan-likely-to-acquire-chinese-nuclear-attack-submarines-ndtv-exclusive-1647370
Pakistan Likely To Acquire Chinese Nuclear Attack Submarines
BY
NDTV
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3-77TnwcS4 ]
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/pakistan-likely-to-acquire-chinese-nuclear-attack-submarines-ndtv-exclusive-1647370
[ Logically Maldives is part of India & should be occupied by India forthwith with Force, if Indians delay the occupation these Islands will be subsequently handed over to PAKISTAN by the Chinese -- Vasundhra]
Pakistan Likely To Acquire Chinese Nuclear Attack Submarines
BY
NDTV
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3-77TnwcS4 ]
A Chinese Type 093 'Shang' class submarine, possibly the same boat to have docked in Karachi
NEW DELHI: A Chinese Navy nuclear-powered attack submarine which docked at the Karachi harbour in May took aboard Pakistani naval officers and sailors to give them a first-hand glimpse of how the submarine works. This was not a simple case of access being given to a close military ally.
Pakistan's acquisition of a 'Shang' class submarine will have an impact on the naval balance in the Indian Ocean, which is currently skewed heavily in favour of the Indian Navy.
Unlike conventional diesel electric submarines that Pakistan has been operating for decades, a nuclear attack submarine has practically unlimited endurance. Its nuclear reactor is unlikely to require refueling during the life of the submarine, which means the 'Shang' can theoretically operate indefinitely under water. Even though realistically, it will be limited by the amount of food and supplies it can carry for its crew.
[ Logically Maldives is part of India & should be occupied by India forthwith with Force, if Indians delay the occupation these Islands will be
subsequently handed over to PAKISTAN by
the Chinese - Vasundhra]
The Indian Navy is convinced that it is a matter of time before Islamabad leases a Chinese nuclear submarine. The Pakistan Navy personnel who were on the submarine may be part of their first team to train on Chinese nuclear submarines, it is believed.
On Friday, NDTV broadcast images of an advanced 'Shang' class nuclear submarine which was placed, through a satellite image, at Karachi last year. The images were first spotted by a satellite imagery expert (@rajfortyseven) who posts on Twitter.
A Chinese nuclear submarine docked in a Karachi harbour in May 2016 photographed on Google Earth.
Displacing 7,000 tonnes when it operates underwater, and armed with six torpedo tubes, the Shang class submarine is part of the latest generation of nuclear attack submarines designed and commissioned by China. The submarine also has the ability to fire cruise missiles - including the Babur missile that Pakistan yesterday claimed to test-fire off its coast, a claim that has been disregarded by the Indian Navy.
India's navy is significantly larger and more capable than its regional rival.
The mechanical reliability of key systems also limits the submarine.
The Pakistani acquisition of a 'Shang' class submarine is meant to counter the Indian Navy's 'Akula-2' class nuclear attack submarines which New Delhi has been leasing from Russia.
Considered among the most powerful submarines of its class, the Akula-2 - named INS Chakra - has been leased for 10 years and will be returned to Russia within four years, by which time the Navy will have acquired a second submarine of the same class. The terms were recently worked out between the two countries.
Now for the first time, details are emerging on how the Indian Navy has been able to track the movement of Chinese submarines, which first started operating in the Indian Ocean in 2013, a clear signal of how Beijing intends to expand its strategic reach to include areas of the Indian Ocean which New Delhi has typically considered its own backyard.
The P8-I is a US-made maritime surveillance aircraft
The Chinese 'Shang' class submarine, which docked in Karachi, entered the Indian Ocean through the Malacca straits off Singapore between April 19 and 20. Picked up almost immediately by the Indian Navy's US-made Boeing P8-I maritime surveillance aircraft, the submarine - accompanied by a large 10,000 ton fleet support and replenishment tanker - was constantly tracked on its way to Karachi.
The P8-Is dropped sonobuoys across the projected route of the submarine. Sonobuoys - small listening devices that transmit the sound of submarines to reconnaissance aircraft operating overhead - are key to detecting submarines.
Interspersed with the 'passive' sonobuoys deployed by the P8-Is, were 'active' sonobuoys which ping the ocean with sound waves reflecting off the submarine surface.
Using a combination of both sensors, the Navy's P8-Is were able to force the Chinese submarine into making evasive maneuvers.
The exact location of the submarine was also passed on to India's own submarines, which were also monitoring the movement of the 'Shang'.
The 'Shang' entered the Karachi harbour on May 19, its exact location constantly plotted by the Indian Navy's assets, which have determined that the sound radiated by the Shang class is higher than the considerably quieter new generation American or Russian submarines, which are tougher to detect.
The 'Shang' and its support ship spent seven days in Karachi, leaving on May 26. It was during this period that Pakistani Navy sailors and officers were allowed access to one of the Chinese Navy's most sensitive assets.
It's still unclear if the 'Shang' returned to Karachi to disembark the Pakistani Naval personnel or whether they were transferred to another vessel as the submarine proceeded south along the Indian peninsula before setting course for the Malacca straits.
On June 14, the 'Shang' submarine exited the Indian Ocean region.
Senior Navy officers have pointed out that the deployment of Chinese Navy submarines in the Indian Ocean coincides with active efforts to establish a ring of ports to strategically encircle India.
On Sunday, the Maldives leased China an island for 50 years at just 3 million dollars.
subsequently handed over to PAKISTAN by
the Chinese - Vasundhra]
Earlier, China had also invested heavily in the Ihaven atoll in the Maldives chain, which lies just south of the southernmost Indian island in the Arabian Sea, the Minicoy Islands.
Located on a key East-West shipping route, Ihaven could give the Chinese the possibility of berthing naval ships and submarines very close to the Indian mainland.
As significantly, China has secured an 80% share of the Hambantota deep sea port in Sri Lanka as well as land for a new industrial zone in the area. According to the plan, land in this area will be ceded to Beijing for the next 99 years in exchange for $1.1 billion towards debt relief.
Pakistan and China, meanwhile, continue to work closely on developing the strategically located Gwadar port, central to the $46 billion China-Pacific Economic Corridor (CPEC) that is under development. China also continues to expand its naval base in Djibouti situated in the Horn of Africa.
In August last year, Pakistan State Radio announced a deal to acquire eight Chinese conventional diesel-electric powered submarines and Bangladesh has just received two submarines for the first time from China.
Posted by Eric at September 18, 2014 3:59 AM ET:
Was PNS Zulfiqar seaworthy?
Last information I can find, she was anchored off Karachi in 2011, was mistaken for an Indian missile boat, and then attacked by PAF F-16's. Strafed with hundreds of rounds of gunfire, she was in an serviceable condition when she was towed to the PNS dockyard, where Zulfiqar has sat ever since, awaiting, but not yet completing, repairs. A ship in such a condition would not normally retain its ordnance on-board. Weapons would be off-loaded and stored in shore magazine bunkers. Like wise the ready-for-sea condition would be significantly relaxed.
If that is, in fact, Zulfiqar's true status, then even a full PN crew could not have gotten the ship underway. The C-802 variant of the Ying 8 surface to surface anti-ship missile has an effective range of 75 miles. US Warships operating in the N Arabian Sea are typically hundreds of sea miles away and need to be detected and tracked by PNS Zulfiqar's ship-based fire control radar in order to provide a targeting solution to the missiles before they are fired. The Ying 802 is programmed to evade enemy radar by flying under 25 feet above the sea surface on its approach to the target. As such, its own radar is incapable of searching and acquiring its own target over-the-horizon, hence PNS Zulfiqar would need to get underway to pursue, detect, track, and assign a US Navy ship to the missile, if the missiles were even kept on-board. If the ship were even repaired from 3 years ago.
What I labor to point out is that Mahmoud is taking his pick of what propaganda value he intends to extract from this incident, while the Pak Navy is silent on the seaworthiness and weapons handling status of the ship that was attacked, for obvious security reasons. Whereas the real likelihood of success for al-Qaeda was less than or equal to Zero. Even to concede all of the above were possible, there was no trained crew standing by to operate any of the technical equipment related to targeting and attacking another vessel with a Sf-Sf missile.
And it just occured to me to wonder, might this have been Ayman al-Zawahiri's "9/11 Reprise".
If they had pulled it off, it could have been a major propaganda coup in the Recruitment Wars with ISIS.
Okay looks like longwarjournal has been censoring me.
Pakistan army is after all a mercenery force.
The average Pakistani
Ashfaq is totally ignorant and he thinks about his closeness
to the middle east rather than South Asia. This would have
another green on blue attack of epic proportions.
I contend that the US Navy should completely stop any ships
from going to Karachi or any ports in Pakistan.
No US Navy commander should not unaware of the risks in Pakistan. One day I contend that the US Navy will be forced to attack Karachi with the legendary 14 inch naval guns and ensure
it cannot be used for a centuries- a dirty nuke on Karachi will solve the problem permanently.
. Why didn't we know about this attempt? Could it because brave, unarmed journalists are cowed by the cowards of the ISI?
Eric, do please share any info you have on a 2011 attack. That seems awfully recent to be so little reported on. The 1971 attack accounts are all over. Thanks for the missile info!
Eric,
I responded to you in an earlier discussion and you didn't give a response.
Here is a story about the PNS Zulfiqar making a visit to Saudi Arabia in February 2012.
http://www.arabnews.com/node/406170
Here are two links about an earlier PNS Zulfiqar taking friendly fire in 1971.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Zulfiqar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trident_(1971)
Since you come across as quite confident with your story of the current PNS Zulfiqar taking friendly fire in 2011, please provide links to support your position on this matter.
Posted by Don at September 19, 2014 12:04 AM ET:
I don't know why many are quick to dismiss these rogue officers abilities. Ever since ISI Lt Gen Mahmood Ahmed was mailing money to Muhammad Atah in 2001, they have effectively started everything since 9/11, covered blunder after blunder (they buried this story folks, can we interrupt the Bengahzi coverage for a moment to cover something that could have changed the world yet again), kept the US out of terrorist run havens, and made jihad global.
From the outset, the missile was designed to sink American carriers.
Pakistani atomics are derived from Chinese designs, AFAIK.
Because of operational secrecy, the Pakistanis are never going to spill the beans, but it's a pretty good bet that at least one of the C-802 missiles deployed on these frigates has an atomic warhead.
This would go a long way to explaining why the security guards on the vessel were so able and paranoid. They were, in fact, elite atomic troops -- hand picked and well trained -- and well paid.
Using elite troops to guard atomic weapons is standard fare in American, Russian, et. al. militaries.
AQ had a plan that ran into the Pakistani "A" team; first string troops. That was unexpected.
When a missile, such as a C-802, mounts an atomic warhead, it usually has very extended range. The atomic warhead will be substantially lighter than a conventional round. All other structures will be built to the highest standard. (lightest weight) Externally it will appear to be entirely conventional.
This provides operational security.
For these reasons no-one should trust the 'missile effective range' statistics that are kicked around in public. If it's public, it's a lie.
America's cruise missiles designed for atomics had staggering ranges w a a a a y beyond that of the conventional cruise missile version. The Soviets considered them so threatening that they were one of the first atomic systems subject to arms control.
I would not be surprised to find out that an atomic C-802 can travel hundreds of miles.
Knowing AQ's style, I wouldn't put it past them to bird dog the American fleet with a 'fishing' boat and a suicide crew. GPS would then do the trick.
My gut tells me that AQ wasn't even thinking about taking the ship to sea.
%%%
I suspect that Islamabad is tearing the house apart tracking down the conspirators. For if they'd pulled it off, Pakistan would be glowing from end to end by now.
After the OBL fiasco, Islamabad is dancing on thin ice.
The Pakistani navy is going to simply have to remove all atomics from their ships.
IIRC, Islamabad was offered PAL technology -- and turned it down flat.
So, a mere handful of junior naval officers can imperil that entire nation -- with no notice at all.
AQ wants a war so big that Pakistan can't survive it.
Blert, you seem to be saying that a nuclear cruise missile launch on an Indian city right from the dock in Karachi was a possible aim, if they were guarding what you postulate. I'm reminded that the Indian Mujahideen (now part of AQIS) wanted to nuke Surat and discussed it w the ISI. That city, in Modi's home state, would have been a tempting target to someone like Z, don't you think? And so close to Karachi. I bet that was the plan.
"Why does ISIL want Siddiqi out of jail, a Pakistani female scientist who had pounds of cyanide on her and map of sites in US? Pakistani negotiators asked for the same thing when they had one of our guys."
&&&
This gal keeps coming up on the Muslim radar because:
1) Opfor psyops has lifted XXX porno footage which was shot in New Jersey (circa 2002) which features a orchestrated 'rape' of a hot young 'Muslim' babe -- and used it ever since as an instance of 'Crusaders' victimizing 'Siddiqi.'
2) Those pleading for 'Siddiqi's' release have absolutely no conception that the real Siddiqi is an ugly hag, PhD scientist, who has found her love life empty for many, many, years -- long before 2001.
3) They also have yet to figure out that they've been viewing out-cuts from a XXX porno shoot -- every last participant was an infidel.
As for Westerners: it's a rare man in the West that has any clue that bootlegs of the New Jersey shoot have been passed around on AQ DVD agitprop all of these years. All that they see is that a gal that belongs in solitary for life is constantly being brought up by Muslims as a victim. (of infidel rape!)
&&&
There is ANOTHER agitprop video that has been circulated by Islamist media. They took a "Boys In The Hall" gag video that was filmed over twenty-years ago and spread it around.
The "Boys In The Hall" were a gay Canadian comedy troupe that was broadcast by HBO a generation ago. Many of those players have gone on to other high profile media projects -- usually on TV.
@@@@
Because both the porno and the comedy bit would be rated as either XXX or R -- they are not ever brought up in any news broadcast in the West.
This keeps these two toxic memes floating on in the Muslim collective (male) mind while being entirely off the radar in the West.
It is quite impossible for me to overstate the impact of the porno agitprop. The way it has been handled, each new viewer thinks that the footage has been smuggled out of a CIA detention center within only the last twelve months. That's the power of a bootleg DVD agitprop video. It's compounded by being, very likely, the first porno that the Muslim boys have ever seen. They've got absolutely no basis of comparison. They buy it hook line and sinker.
%%%
The comedy video -- I saw the original broadcast -- was one of the funniest - and lewdest - ever aired.
It was released to coincide with Holloween week. Lacking any story boards, it's hard to relate in words. The gist of it is that a young man is nervously awaiting his (obviously gay) date. Wordlessly, the script tosses out his fantasy imaginings of dating horror -- with allusions to Dracula, perverted sex, sadism, bondage, and entrapment. These visuals are snapped on by -- contrasted with the naive innocence of his date -- who is utterly harmless and dressed like the boy next door.
The punchline/ image is that even before his date knocks on his door our young man has passed out -- and dropped to the floor unconscious. His date finally breaks in to his bedroom to discover that the young man's (very large) dog is taking advantage of him... to the complete horror of his date.
This sequence was tossed into the mix of political art criticizing Mo' that originated in Denmark -- all those years ago.
Stills from both the porno and the HBO broadcast were added to those of the Jyllands-Posten and are STILL circulating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
As you might expect, Westerners are totally confused as to why the Denmark series is STILL a hot button.
The connection laid out here is largely unknown. The Islamists have got both sides arguing at cross purposes. It's the two 'additions' that have got Muslims upset the most. Whereas, the Westerners keep defending the harmless political artwork.
Like 'The Protocols', this agitprop figures to have really long legs.